Crying Wolf - kennel

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by johnslawek

I feel compelled to address all the misinformation of Crying Wolf kennel as I own Frida Crying Wolf in the USA.

if you think about other men which write here - they also have dogs from CW. and they have their own opinion. they have right to write. they were by Edith and write what they see. do you took you pup in Europe? do you come here? or do you get pup just on airport? maybe other people who write here know more?
if you mean me - i write what i see. and what you can see on the bonitacions - only few dogs passed them and with not very good notes for charactere. you can control it in database. it is not my opinion. but i do not want to say that Crying wolf kennel is worser as others if we speak about character. i just only show that more owners complain in forums about character as by other breeders - but maybe i do not know everything, maybe because this kennel produced more pups as others...

Originally Posted by johnslawek

To poorly broadcast such misinformation concerning Crying Wolf in this manner in the USA would be libel and that could carry severe consequences.

and freedom of speach? you can write "always displayed high spirit and vigor" and other owners can write what they see and what they think. maybe they are wrong. maybe lunatica of massimo is untrusty because he are not socialised her very good. maybe Christan don't know this breed and was not able to train dog so the dog become problematic. but they have the right to write what they think. and what they see.

Originally Posted by lorry

I'm the French breeder with the afix La Mollyniere de Lo'Scale and I have import 3 dogs from Crying wolf!
I'm fan of the selection work made by Edit Molnar and I find her work very interessing at all

i do not know the rules in france. maybe it is no problem for you. but for me it is sorry - i wrote i like the look of Crying wolf dogs. it is true. but i want to use dogs which have the bonitaction. if the charactere is not ok - i will not use it. if the dog is too small - and i see many dogs i met was small - too small. my bitch is 64 cm so i know when male dog is as high as she or small. if a male is not bigger as she it always mean male have no 65 min so it is smaller as minimum in stardard. and i saw bonitacions where male was hard to reach with them the minimum. in france you do not need bonitation but here it is very important.

but i know some dogs from Crying wolf, very nice dogs which are not small. but i can not use them. it is because of the hd. you can ask Czech or Slovak breeders and i think International Federation say it - if you make couple and one dog do not have good hips the second dog must have perfect x-rays. Czech and Slovak Club and Lithuanian cynological society are for health of breed - so they say that breeder can not make couples of two dogs hd-b and hd-b, or hd-b and hd-c or hd-c and hd-b. you can make only hd-c and hd-a, hd-b and hd-a and hd-a and hd-a. other is simply not possible and if a breeder make something like this i think he will not have papers for the pups. because it is not allowed and not ok. also the people which want to have pups control it. so i can not use many dogs because if they will see the pedigree they will say i am not a good breeder. you have rambo so you know it. i see photo. he is nice dog but i as breeder can not use he because of pedigree because by his parents and grandparents there is noteven 1 dog which is hd-a. all are hd-b, hd-c...
for some people hd in pedigree is not a problem because if someone want have family dog (until dog have no problems with hips). but i am a breeder and i must take made something good for wolfdogs.
lorry, i checked your kennel and i see that for you it is also not a problem because you do not check your dogs. so if you do not check it maybe x-rays are not important for you. i care for health of my pups and it is important for me. i do not want to be affraid to breed ill dogs. so i use only dogs with x-rays and only with good pedigrees (not too many bad results as possible).
i also see you dogs live in kennels (sorry if i am wrong but i see it on photos). if a dog live in kennel it is not a problem if the charactere is not good. you can close it. but problems with shy and not socialised dogs have people when dogs live at homes. for me if someone want good dog for home, for work and for friend people should never buy pups from kennel dogs because most of problematic dogs are kennel pups.

massimo, you write breeders do not publish all x-rays. now it is not a problem to make x-rays in all countries. so if i see litter with missing x-rays i am almost sure the breeder want to hide them because they are not good. if i see new dog pedigree with missing x-rays i always put there hd-d or hd-e (if the breeder do not want to check dog or not publish x-rays so i think the dog must not be heathly). and i will never buy a pup from a breeder who do not check couples. because it is not a good breeder. it is for sure a mas producer.

P.S.i am not against Crying wolf dogs. some time ago i though to go long way and about cover my female with one of CW dogs. but when i saw they are so small and do not have good hd results and i see it in pedigree i decided not to do it. it is not only problem with CW dogs and there are other breeders which have the same problems. it is not a problem if not dogs are heathy and nice and big from one kennel. but for me as breeder it is something what i can not accept if i see a problem is visible in pedigree...

[massimo]

Originally Posted by wolfin

massimo, you write breeders do not publish all x-rays. now it is not a problem to make x-rays in all countries. so if i see litter with missing x-rays i am almost sure the breeder want to hide them because they are not good. if i see new dog pedigree with missing x-rays i always put there hd-d or hd-e (if the breeder do not want to check dog or not publish x-rays so i think the dog must not be heathly). and i will never buy a pup from a breeder who do not check couples. because it is not a good breeder. it is for sure a mas producer.

I do not agree: some owners do not publish HD results on this site because they do not like or do not agree or do not care of the !owners" of the site(again, personal matters)
Not necessariliy somebody who doesn't like or care for Wolfdog.org is a bad breeder...

Originally Posted by wolfin

P.S.i am not against Crying wolf dogs. some time ago i though to go long way and about cover my female with one of CW dogs. but when i saw they are so small and do not have good hd results and i see it in pedigree i decided not to do it. it is not only problem with CW dogs and there are other breeders which have the same problems. it is not a problem if not dogs are heathy and nice and big from one kennel. but for me as breeder it is something what i can not accept if i see a problem is visible in pedigree...

I assure you I do not DEFEND in any way Edit, she doesn't need me to defend or accuse her.
I do not always agree on some of her breeding choice and she knows it.
I have my own strong opinion about Character, Bonitation, HD, inbreeding, bloodline, Work, and I have built my opinion speaking and absorbing info (positive and negative) from many many breeders, visiting there homes.
I assure you I have visited the kennel of many of them.
Nobody is perfect, but from character/Hd point of view in general (not specifically about CW) I feel I agree with you.
A good CSWolfdog should stand proud, straight next to his owner and not hide like a mouse.
It is very difficult for a breeder with MANY dogs to make wolfdogs with good characters, because the time they have to dedicate to all is very small.
That's why I personally think if somebody wants to take a dog from a "big" breeder (big in quantity, not in quality ), then take it away from kennel as soon as possible.
I can make you a list of breeders (and some you know VERY well...) with many many dogs, and most do not have very brave dogs.
Shyness is surely a NEGATIVE characteristic of this breed.
Owners must work very hard to have a manageable dog.
I am satisfied with my dogs, coming from "big" kennels, but I worked hard on them.
massimo

[wolfin]

Not necessariliy somebody who doesn't like or care for Wolfdog.org is a bad breeder...

but someone who cares so much that he post advertising about the litter but do not post x-rays is a bad breeder. i do not know breeder which hides good x-ray results.

It is very difficult for a breeder with MANY dogs to make wolfdogs with good characters, because the time they have to dedicate to all is very small.

it is what i saw. if breeder has many wolfdogs it is not good breeder because he can not spend many time with every dog. after it pups from such kennel are shy and people have more problems with the pups from "family" kennels.

I can make you a list of breeders (and some you know VERY well...) with many many dogs, and most do not have very brave dogs.

i am not sure if i know such breeders very good. could you list some examples? because most breeders i know do not have huge kennels with many dogs living in cages. in our country if someone keep dogs in kennel for whole day he is not called good breeder but mas producer. and i am always shocked when someone writes "i am good breeder and i care for my dogs" and i see he has many kennels and many dogs. many breeders say lot. but it is easy to control them when i see a litter and couple has only some show results but no x-rays, no working exams than it mean 100% - it is not a good breeder, it is producer. we say biznesman.

I am satisfied with my dogs, coming from "big" kennels, but I worked hard on them.

but many people do not want to work hard. many buy first wolfdog and they do not know everything. if they get pup from big kennel they have problem. and later they write. i know most big breeders do not care if owner have problem, do not want contact.

[martiou07]

hello, I had the occasion to see in France some dogs of this breeding. a dog of this breeding types me with the eye "Robin hood"(aspect making me much think of the wolf and especially of very beautiful small ears), the others I find to them anything from exceptional... character point of view, of what I noted in expo, "merlin" seems to me best, having spoken with a person having gone to seek her dog with this breeding, there would be a great lack of stimulis and that is noticed... here is my opinion on the subject which hold only with me...

Martial

[johnslawek]

The initial subject of tail curvature has finally evolved into a Shakespearian play "Much Ado About Nothing". Howver, since it has gone onto the character of Hungarian Wolfdogs, I would like to profess that I own Frida Crying Wolf from Mona's first litter. Frida, aka Sophie, is a Hungarian and everything that I expected and desired in a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog. Frida is high spirited, inexhaustible, loving, protective and dominant. I would always desire a pup from a wolfdog like Mona. All of those traits that she bears carry a scimitar tail which are signifiers of her energy. As such it is hard to believe that this tale continues. Enough is enough. It is not the breeder. Thus it falls naturally that some persons are better parents than others.
John Slawek

[jasmine]

no,this topic is not about the puppy age...and please don't pretend that you don't understand what I have written before!
or...if you don't undestand it would be better to come back to the french site.......................sorry...but I have lost my tolerance in this case.....

[elf]

Childishness answers.
I was reading this thread because of johnslawek. And was astonished to read hanninadina saying you sell puppies the age of 5,5 weeks. If I want to write straight about a breeding point or another no problem for me and I wrote it this way: http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showpos...&postcount=111

[jasmine]

how do you dare to use John Slawek for your disgusting intricts?????
Shame on you!!!!

[elf]

No shame here, please stop this king of insinuation. Reading old messages written by John Slawek to know more about him ? I see no problem. As I told you and show you in de la Louve Blanche thread I don't need any artefact to tell straight people what I want.

The only shame I see here, is the problem you have answering clearly questions about your way of breeding, especillay the way you breed regarding HD. I told in the other thread the way HD allele propagate into the breed. A more adult and serious approach from you would be to explain why you mate dogs with so much bad HD pedigree ? With which statistical results ? Or to tell if you made some changes meanwhile, why, and how ? Why you make mating around 20% consanguinity on 5 gen whereas the time is to take care of diversity in the breed ? The answers you would provide can be useful for anyone, so please stop your childish attitude putting the head on the floor or escaping behind lame answers. It's early time for the breed to think about health first. I can already tell you that the number of disease will increase rather fast, especially heart side. No more for me.

Hi Christian, I know not bad wolfdogs and always asks people when I don't know something (especially Nicole Wilde I consider as one of the very best for wolfdogs), I can tell you 6 weeks is to early (if you need reference about this send me a PM I would send you scientist publications about it), this often leads to hyperactivity trouble (if all is nice with your Myla it's all good, but one cannot expect it's the rule for pups separated the age of 6 weeks for the mother). Wolfdogs the age of 8 weeks have no problem to make strong bond with the owner, and this give 4 more weeks for the owner to make efficient socialisation. All this phase correspond of well know cognitive development.

[jasmine]

I'm just wondering why do you think that the hd results on the wolfdog database are correct and complete????? I must tell you it is not correct and not complete!!!Moreover we have very strict examination,and maybe I could bring my dogs to some other countries for better results.......but I won't do that!
About my attitude: those who know me they know I'm very direct person...not hide behinde the curtain..and I'm very critical especial my own dogs...but..I'm so sorry elf...I think not you are the right person who could tell me what should I do:
my results and satisfied owner of my dogs are justify me.
If you wouldn't minde I would stop this usless communication with you!

[elf]

It's your choice I have no problem about it. But open talk is always better. You know I'm from research world and talk are often rather shaking-hard because people don't often agree. It's not a problem because at the end everyone learn from everyone, so everybody is winning.

[martiou07]

hello Mrs Molnar, therefore after what I include/understand, the results of dysplasy concerning your dogs are erroneous?
all d' access I hold to specify you that j' certain dog coming from your production, for some I saw tell you cheer, some are splendid, of the types very lupoide, for d' others ......... but that is normal, all cannot be perfect, and that I include/understand it
on the other hand what I include/understand less, which you a type whom you had recourse tostrong rate of consanguinity in your first marriage in order to fix like, I include/understand, but why still do have recourse to this selection in your recent marriages??
I see that on some that seems to me much better, you vary a little more on your choices of marriage, but why that :

ex. phaedra /Blue = 15.82.....%
Rubin/Blue = 19.43....%
Flash/Issar = 20.50...%
Galiba/flash = 16.06....%
........ i decree there because there is much of it
thus in come to ask me a question, which is addressed to you as to the other stockbreeders?? Must one hold account of it so much…. my opinion on this question, is that on such a recent race, I find that not careful of the whole, i have can be wrong, but I do not see interest….

[elf]

At some point consanguinity is need BUT...

- Regarding the genetic pool for the CsV we are already rather far (indeed I personnaly don't know how long the breed can survive without new wolf blood, it really can (as there are enough) but only with an international agreement on CsV breeding scheme, but it's another question...).

- Consanguinity for fixing a type ? It not absolutely needed, there are other breeding ways.

- It as already be proven that high consanguinity:
-- leads to rise up genetic diseases (as 3/4 of dogs genetic diseases propagate thought autosomal recessive scheme)
-- leads to shorter life, in some breeds consanguinity between 8% and 20% reduce the life of 4 years.

So a deep care to this point must be done by future breeders.

[furyos]

HUMMMMM........................................... ........................................:sh ock:......................... ........................................Edit please .....yu can just note one thing ..... JALOUSY ........ that's all ...... this guys have common dogs and nothing exceptionnal .... that IS THE REAL problem ..... nothing else ..... when yu have not a pure CSW(mix beetween white german shepherd) or a common csw (no title ).. what yu do ? yu try to find something wrong in the best ..... good reflexions ..... f

[martiou07]

Furyos, I put questions with the person who dictates you what to make, like you n' ace never could answer it, I require of him. D' as much more than you do not reproduce anything d' other that its work in l' together. As regards d' a not titrated bitch, and then?? you n' ace not included/understood that is not a dog is not titrated; it should not reproduce, and especially that the titles n' bring anything to its puppies, put aside as in your case, to sell pups more easily
jealousy, certainly not, like I t' already, I made include/understand do not see any interest for ego d' to have a dog of the style of the cryingwolf, thanks to you let us be invaded we by it in France, nothing good interesting for the control of l' breeding of the dog wolf in France….finally this is another subject. thus thank you Furyos not to intervene more in a discution but you n' do not be able to include/understand

to return from there to my question Mrs Molnar, this one n' no back has thought, I just make a point of including/understanding what pushes you to do that

[elf]

Very funny Frank it's exactly what Edit said to Margo in this thread: jealousy: http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...?t=9341&page=4

It's the only answer people can find when they have not the ability to answer breeding scheme questions (consanguinity, HD ...). In fact in this thread we have two more answers: 1) the database is false and 2) Hungary has the stricter HD examination. We won't have any real answers, that's all.

[furyos]

hi ELF .. BUT WHAT KIND OF RESPONSE DO YU WANT ???? .. when yu note that it's ALLWAYS this way of bad discussions (for real good dogs) is note ???? allways edit molnar /or passo del lupo /or de la louve blanche ..etc ...are on this sort of discussions / y never note kennel with real bad results on ?? WHY ???? crying wolf kennel win a lot in beauty dog show .. THAT it's TRUE !!! caracther for her dogs are allways in discussionS .... and y prove with volos/blue /merlin .. etc they are NOT SHY ... then yu speak about hd .. .. but mine are A:A or A/B .... and pupps too .... ... now yu speak about consanguinity .... (15 /19 % is not a scandal in a new breed like our breed) and some marriage prove a real good work on ..EXPLAIN TO ME NOW THE REAL PROBLEM???? because a lot of people in europe or other countries like this type ?? yes and some prefer an other one !!!! personaly y like some kennels and not alls !!!! this is human taste !!!! Breeders do what they want in their mind.. it's THEIR RESPONSABILITIES !!!!! .... and we don't need personn like YU !!! who say or think stupid reflexions to help "y don't know really what or WHO ???? good reflexions .. FOR MARTIOU ... NO COMMENT ... y wait the results for this new breeder !!!!!.. best regards ... f

[martiou07]

too much consanguinity is not a scandal, very well , it's your opinion, could you argue a little more please ??

Newbie breeder, Furyos, differ of you I had wait for know better the breed before make litters, I hadn't take addult dogs with the will to have pups quickly

[furyos]

MR MARTIOU Can yu write english correctly please ? because yur reply is not really clear !!!! or if yu can't ....try to use an other translator for yur ideas ... it will be more serious .... best regards .. (if yu think (if y read beetween yur words)y buy just adults for my kennel .. yu do a real mistake.. but in my first selection .. YES definitivly .. because y want to see and have exactly what y like in my house and not a black and white wolfdog like yur.. sorry ... no same taste ..after volos arrive and really y NEVER have any desapoint ...)

[martiou07]

" too much consanguinity is not a scandal, very well , it's your opinion, could you argue a little more please ?? "

you do not understand that??????

I believe that you want especially to avoid answering this, because you ace no answer, besides this is not a scandal, cheer!!!!!