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Old 25-06-2011, 22:36   #21
Nebulosa
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First, what have English breeding to do in a topic about French breeding?
We all know what's going on in England and how the problem started, there are several topics about it even on this forum, why bring it to this topic? England situation is less critical as CzW is not an "The Kennel Club" breed and The Kennel Club is not FCI.

Second, Admin is not telling people what to do, nor accusing all French breeders of cheat, is that hard to read the topic with cool mind? Seems you're all only jumping on Admins neck because he is simply the Admin.
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Old 25-06-2011, 22:41   #22
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Dear french ( not all but this who have "not clear hands"), WHY ATACK admin but not WANT a clear situation in Your country - make test, put out falshe dogs, and all be ok, NOW YOU only cry but nothing make in this situation

bravo admin - You are great.
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Old 25-06-2011, 22:44   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchwolf View Post
I agree with you but the story is a lot more complicated.
Now Admin tell to people "do not buy french dog because ...". He can't say this thing and stay hidden. This is too important.
ok who he mas say? say for us please
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Old 25-06-2011, 23:05   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchwolf View Post
I agree with you but the story is a lot more complicated.
Now Admin tell to people "do not buy french dog because ...". He can't say this thing and stay hidden. This is too important.
je suis d'accord avec ca, c facile de discréditer et de rester bien planké derrière son écran... maintenant moi je trouves, ke toutes les accusations fondées ou pas sont trés importantes et ca devient vraiment trés critikes surtout pour les retombées d 'élevage francais ki sont clean (il y en a kand même)...
tout cela est de la discrémination pur et simple, car vous mettez tous les éleveurs dans le même sac... vous voulez sauver la race , je suis bien d'accord avec vous sur cela, mais avant faut des preuves de ce ke l'on apporte, personnellement étant simple proprio de cl, je suis pas d'accord k'on mette dans le même sac tout le monde.... c trés grave de dire sur un forum public "n'achetez pas de chiots francais" et j'avoue ke cela est choquant... si j'étais éleveuse clean, je ne laisserais surement pas tomber de telles accusations... et je procéderais juridiquement..
j'fais pas d'effort dans mon parler non plus.....lol!!
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Old 26-06-2011, 00:08   #25
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by,

Eliot du clan Reyzesnec
born in november 2009

and his friends,two Irish Wolfhounds


amitiés

stéphen, merci de votre acceuil!

Last edited by Pericles 40; 26-06-2011 at 00:20.
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Old 26-06-2011, 00:17   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfin View Post
ok who he mas say? say for us please
I do not understand your message :/

I am not against Admin. I am not a breeder or a owner of CLT. I understand and I am ok with the idea of MIX and remove MIX from the loop.

But currently there is no real proof and this is the main problem. You can not accuse without proof and even more when you do it anonymously. you are innocent until proven guilty

The guilty party will never come to you and say "yes I have ...". Until now Admin did not give us a way to prove a dog is a MIX.

When he say "do not buy french dog" he goes too far. He can give his opinion or tell to people "I think ..." but people who do not follow all discussions can't have a complete opinion with the main message of this topic.

If he write a message with all his arguments and then say "I think you should not buy french dogs except if you know what you do" I will be ok with him.

At the end, if you do not know who Admin is, you can not give importance to his opinion. Maybe he have his reason to destroy the french dogs, or french breeder or french or maybe he only like dogs and hate MIX, we do not know.

Last edited by Watchwolf; 26-06-2011 at 00:20.
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Old 26-06-2011, 00:27   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchwolf View Post
I do not understand your message :/

I am not against Admin. I am not a breeder or a owner of CLT. I understand and I am ok with the idea of MIX and remove MIX from the loop.

But currently there is no real proof and this is the main problem. You can not accuse without proof and even more when you do it anonymously. you are innocent until proven guilty

The guilty party will never come to you and say "yes I have ...". Until now Admin did not give us a way to prove a dog is a MIX.

When he say "do not buy french dog" he goes too far. He can give his opinion or tell to people "I think ..." but people who do not follow all discussions can't have a complete opinion with the main message of this topic.

If he write a message with all his arguments and then say "I think you should not buy french dogs except if you know what you do" I will be ok with him.
sorry but arguments are in this ALL forum this are only one from all message. Read all forum and see - admin are rigth, and only he and others people try have pure breed and change this situation, but not french breeder ( not alls, are and they who work too) for this time we have only worts " jelous, stupid admin, not important pure is important only wolfish mix who not are similar to CSV and moore bla bla bla". Who mas clean Your country - french or others lands. for this admin say very correct- now suspicious are almost all breeder and dogs. Maybe is time begin make cleaning self? or fopr You all FR dogs who naming in all themat are PURE and super duper ok?
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Old 26-06-2011, 00:28   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchwolf View Post

At the end, if you do not know who Admin is, you can not give importance to his opinion. Maybe he have his reason to destroy the french dogs, or french breeder or french or maybe he only like dogs and hate MIX, we do not know.
ooo this same style like "jelous and bla bla bla"
p.s.
why admin ( I too ) mas love a MIX with a CSV pedigree? MIX are ONLY PET CLAS CATEGORY animal but not moore- no breed, no pedigree no purity, NOTHING only animal for love - PET
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Old 26-06-2011, 00:29   #29
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There IS a limitation written in the standard. The FCI breed standard (http://www.fci.be/uploaded_files/332GB99_en.doc) describe Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs as dogs with "above average size". Not "small" and not "huge" - but above average size. As "average size" FCI list breeds where males are about 65cm high. All breeds growing over 70cm are described as HUGE breeds.
So according to the FCI the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog male should have 65-70cm. Females should be smaller and easy to recognize (+ "Sex should be unmistakable.")


But here we do not speak about standard but about outcrossings. It is typical that outcrosses lead to high dogs. And the mixes with Saarloos proved this - even if the parents were small the puppies were very high dogs. The Crying Wolf kennel was known for years for dogs which hardly reach the minimum size. Now we have mystery litters where dogs grow bigger even than the Czech lines.
The same is visible in France where out of parent of average and above the average size we get dogs (where it is known that they are AWD-crosses) which reach much more that 70cm at early age.

The size is not the only proof but can be another advice that something is really going on in the mentioned lines.


my dod 73 cm, it's not a Clt fot Admi, to big? watt a pitty
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Old 26-06-2011, 00:36   #30
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"Definetely, England will remain "forever" as a small island, with people with the spirit so narrow as their country."

But not as narrow in mind as you appear to be judging by that statement.

If you bother to look you will find that the English breeders have had their fair share of criticism on this forum and rightly so, they deserve it. They also get frequent criticism from the English themselves. Now there's a shock eh.(Note sarcasm)

The crap in the UK doesn't excuse the crap in France and remember, it was one of your own suspect French breeders that sent their saarloos and csv mixes to the UK.

There is a saying, "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones". Something you may wish to remember.

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Old 26-06-2011, 00:42   #31
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Watchwolf, did you read the thread on here where admin did post his or her argument?

Maybe wanting to know who Admin is or accuser's name is a cultural difference? For me, I don't care who Admin is or anyone else,.. If the words are true, that is more important to me.

Besides, photos from questionable kennels can be seen if you search. My own amateur eyes see those photos posted here and elsewhere, .. ...
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Old 26-06-2011, 00:44   #32
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Maybe a better more "culturally sensitive" solution, is to not buy, or buy with caution, any dog belonging to or descended from this list (regardless of where the dog is born). I assume all suspected mixes have been added to this list:

http://www.wolfdog.org/php/modules.p...=mix&wtype=dog

And if buying with the intention to breed, maybe also use caution with this list?

http://www.wolfdog.org/php/modules.p...-fci&wtype=dog

I do hope people of all nations take responsibility, love and care for the health and purity of our breed.
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Old 26-06-2011, 00:55   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalomyOak View Post
Maybe a better more "culturally sensitive" solution, is to not buy, or buy with caution, any dog belonging to or descended from this list (regardless of where the dog is born). I assume all suspected mixes have been added to this list:

http://www.wolfdog.org/php/modules.p...=mix&wtype=dog

And if buying with the intention to breed, maybe also use caution with this list?

http://www.wolfdog.org/php/modules.p...-fci&wtype=dog

I do hope people of all nations take responsibility, love and care for the health and purity of our breed.
bravo, je pense la meme chose
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Old 26-06-2011, 01:25   #34
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believe it or not there are csv owners in England as i am sure there is in France that wish the best for this breed and want them to be kept pure.. tarring all people with the same brush is not right or fair.
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Old 26-06-2011, 01:49   #35
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i'm shure , but admi wright

It seems that the French pedigrees are at the moment only a useless piece of paper which guaranty NOTHING. They do not even keep the the BASIC FCI rules about breeding pedigree dogs.
i think , that not the best thing to say

we are ,all, on the same world, wolf- dog, from Tchecoslovacia

thank you for your answer,je ne viens pas agresser, but i want just
anderstanding,
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Old 26-06-2011, 07:07   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalomyOak View Post
I do hope people of all nations take responsibility, love and care for the health and purity of our breed.
Nicely said, Marcy, I agree 100% on the ideological level. There are honest honest and dishonest people everywhere, honest and dishonest breeders among them, so applying nationalist approach to dog breeding is absurd.

But it's not feasible for "people of all nations" to take action in this particular situation. I suppose what Admin meant was that if they really cared about the breed, French breeders and French KC with cooperation, if necessary, of other national KCs and FCI (?) should start doing something to clear the mess. Especially, that it was Lorry - a French breeder , who initiated the topic of mixes/ DM "miracles" and most of the dogs with questioned pedigrees live in France.

BTW If I had a breeding dog with a questioned pedigree I'd do the same what the owner of Juri ZP did - immediately take him to Laboklin lab to have his DNA profiles stored there for further investigation and comaprisons. Such action shows honest intentions and is much more logical and efficient than spending days and weeks accusing the Admin of all the evil in the world.
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Old 26-06-2011, 09:42   #37
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Admin should learn what his job is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interne...#Administrator
then come back without specific status and tell to people what you think.

It is not a fair fight when you have a admin or moderator versus a simple member. And here the admin is hidden :/

Then he gives his opinion with arguments. Some People on the forum or some people on google will not search his arguments, they will only read this topic.
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Old 26-06-2011, 11:00   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchwolf View Post
Admin should learn what his job is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interne...#Administrator
then come back without specific status and tell to people what you think.
This is a private site and the owners decide on the status of the Admin, not you or wikipedia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchwolf View Post
It is not a fair fight when you have a admin or moderator versus a simple member. And here the admin is hidden :/
I'm not surprised he's hidden, after all what Margo had to go through when she was acting admin. BTW I'll give you a secret hint... Admin's French and only pretends he doesn't speak the language.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchwolf View Post
Then he gives his opinion with arguments. Some People on the forum or some people on google will not search his arguments, they will only read this topic.
Neither will some, who listen to Frank and other French breeders/owners who write all sort of things on their own websites and other forums.
Frank mentioned this in some other thread! Calm down , wolfdog.org is not the centre of the Universe, there are people who own and breed vlcaks and don't even know about this site.
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Old 26-06-2011, 11:07   #39
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I really prefer you act your choice on a list of dogs rather than a country, or a list of breeders.

In fact, perhaps, there are some breeders in France who may be used a Mixed CSV in the past, with papers ok, without knowing the truth about it. And now, they are breeding Pure CSV.

Everybody can make mistake, understand it, and so on turn into the right way.

Not all people in a country is running to the same way, as a a flock of sheep.
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Old 26-06-2011, 11:19   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Admin View Post

It seems that the French pedigrees are at the moment only a useless piece of paper which guaranty NOTHING. They do not even keep the the BASIC FCI rules about breeding pedigree dogs.

Till the case will be solved please DO NOT BUY ANY PUPPIES FROM FRANCE

Be sure ADMIN that as PROFESIONAL BREEDER, even i am not in your target, here in France, DEFAMATION facts are punished by law.

I must inform you that all words you have written in this way are already registered by usher (because i am so used of WD demating practices)...

... and in case my notoriety is attacked by your acts, you will be punished for that (WD forum... then you admin).

I highly recommend you to take out yours defamating words, and make a DENIAL which will not engaged all French breeders.

Even that, if there is a real problem as you mentioned, be sure breeders which respect the rules would be totally opened to give help to FCI.
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