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Clubs & law Information about CzW clubs in other countries, law concerning CzW and Kennel CLub regulations...

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Old 01-05-2012, 22:49   #1
GalomyOak
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Default Hungarian kennel club defunct?

Today I received this message from the Puli club in the US, but I think it affects all dogs bred in Hungary after 15 May. Has anyone heard about it?

The Hungarian Kennel Club will be made
dysfunctional on May 15th by the Hungarian
government. Here is a brief synopsis:

István Siklósi
Lots of people abroad are asking us what has
happened in Hungary. I try to sum it up briefly:
13 years ago, a group of people left MEOE, and
started lobbying at the Agricultural Ministry.
They succeeded: dog breeding was drawn under
state direction, ”state approval” became
compulsory, and dogs were declared as farm
animals. That time, the ministry declared that
group of people as ”state approved”. Since that
time, we live in a parallel way: MEOE keeps the
stud books and organizes shows as part of the FCI
system, and the ”state approved” group has not
really done anything, but trying to get the FCI
rights from MEOE. They register only 2 breeds as
a ”state approved” organisation, it is not an FCI
registry, and they organize shows, which are not FCI shows.
In the meantime, the Constitutional Court decided
that dogs can not be considered as farm animals,
and that MEOE is a civil organisation, and as
such can not be governed by the state.
Now, the infringement law and its part about
breeding aminals has been modified. It says that
only ”state approved” organisations are allowed
to register and organize dog shows in Hungary. In
fact, MEOE can not do anyhting, otherwise it, its
board, and even its judges have to pay a penalty
of a very high amount. So, MEOE has not been
terminated directly, but it has benn made
dysfunctional. This modification will come into
effect on 15. May. Negotiations are going on,
MEOE will publish an official statement soon.
We are asking dog enthusiasts and kennel clubs
abroad to help and protest against this process
with the Minister, Dr. Sándor Fazekas at the
Hungarian Agricultural Ministry. Seeing the
international cooperation may make them
reconsider the effects of their decision.
http://www.kormany.hu/hu/videkfejlesztesi-miniszterium
e-mail address: [email protected]
press office: [email protected]
Thank you!

Kormányzat - Vidékfejlesztési Minisztérium
www.kormany.hu
A Vidékfejlesztési Minisztérium
vidékfejlesztéssel, élelmiszerlánc-felügyelettel,
környezetvédelemmel, agrárgazdasággal kapcsolatos
ügyekért felelos. A minisztérium fo célkituzése a
fenntartható természeti eroforrás-gazdálkodás, a
többfunkciós mezogazdálkodás, a vidékfejlesztés, valamint a biztonság...
http://www.kormany.hu/hu/videkfejlesztesi-miniszterium
www.kormany.hu
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Old 02-05-2012, 00:21   #2
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I hope the FCI is or will be made aware of this. They have, in the past, stopped recognizing various national Kennel Clubs, for example the Kennel Club of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and currently Kazahkstan (http://fci.be/circulaires/89-2010.pdf).
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Old 02-05-2012, 16:06   #3
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I have read about it on belgian shepherd forum
They will organize World Dog Show in 2013!
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Old 02-05-2012, 16:29   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefta View Post

They will organize World Dog Show in 2013!
That is a huge problem! There is a petition on change.org, don't know if it will have any effect...but maybe in the end this will bring something better, more organized for Hungary, since it seems there are some problems with the registry
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Old 03-05-2012, 16:46   #5
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petition:
http://www.change.org/petitions/meoe...e_button_modal


they also organize World Championship in IPO in September 2012
http://fci2012.hu/ang/index.php

Better? We have in Europe many small kennel clubs. But all of them are much worst than this big, old recognized by FCI They all are created by puppy millers discarded from recognized Kennel Clubs
they have even own union-F.C.I. (not FCI )
http://www.webfci.org/
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Old 03-05-2012, 16:51   #6
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Considering the current situation that our member in Hungary, MEOE, is facing, the FCI members and the FCI General Committee wish to reiterate their full support to our very long-standing member that has been sharing our wonderful existence since 1933. Talks and negotiations will take place with the Hungarian political authorities to envisage the future but we want to insist to the world dog community that MEOE can count with our unconditioned support and friendship.
H.W. Müller
FCI President
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Old 03-05-2012, 23:06   #7
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I think I understand better now. Thanks!

It's such a different system for me to understand. Most "smaller" kennel clubs (local or breed clubs), as well as our parent organization, AKC, are private organizations. But they are also federal/state recognized organizations also. Most do not pay taxes - they are considered educational non-profit groups.
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Old 04-05-2012, 07:59   #8
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Should the present Hungarian KC reacted to vlcak community pledges to sort out the doubts connected with the appearance of "pink CSVs" descendng from CW lines, I'd be motivated to offer my support now.

CSV owners kept asking the Hungarian KC to fulfil the FCI statutory obligations and conduct enquiry, but unfortunately, as far as I know, recieved no answer and no action was taken.
Seems FCI regulations did not matter much to the present Hungarian KC anyway, so why should we be bothered?
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:00   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rona View Post
Should the present Hungarian KC reacted to vlcak community pledges to sort out the doubts connected with the appearance of "pink CSVs" descendng from CW lines, I'd be motivated to offer my support now.

CSV owners kept asking the Hungarian KC to fulfil the FCI statutory obligations and conduct enquiry, but unfortunately, as far as I know, recieved no answer and no action was taken.
Seems FCI regulations did not matter much to the present Hungarian KC anyway, so why should we be bothered?
This is a ""very fair"" comment ....

I am a Hungarian ....many letters asking for this site admin to tell me what I can do to clarify the origin of my dogs ...but I did not receive a response.

Now is not the case ....but catch up to save the Hungarian Kennel club.

But we do not need your "help" ...
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:07   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norky View Post
This is a ""very fair"" comment ....
I am a Hungarian ....many letters asking for this site admin to tell me what I can do to clarify the origin of my dogs ...but I did not receive a response.
Should your Kennel Club act reasonably, appropriatly and FAIRLY, also towards owners and breeders from other countries, followed the rules and mission the FCI, you'd probably have no reason to ask for any clarifications. It was the Hungarian Kennel Club in the first place, not WD Admin, that should have done something about the doubtful CSV cases from CW kennel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norky View Post
But we do not need your "help" ...
Good to hear, because I've learned my lesson from having supported Winder's "Breed Club" that turned out to be a cover for mix-breeding in the UK. Now I will never formally support any case of which I'm not 100% sure is honest.
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:31   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rona View Post
Should your Kennel Club act reasonably, appropriatly and FAIRLY, also towards owners and breeders from other countries, followed the rules and mission the FCI, you'd probably have no reason to ask for any clarifications. It was the Hungarian Kennel Club in the first place, not WD Admin, that should have done something about the doubtful CSV cases from CW kennel.

Good to hear, because I've learned my lesson from having supported Winder's "Breed Club" that turned out to be a cover for mix-breeding in the UK. Now I will never formally support any case of which I'm not 100% sure is honest.

please specify:

Just you think doubt about the origin of the Hungarian dogs.

However, I wanted to prove the origin of my dogs.
But no answer .... as always.

In this respect: it was my dogs have formal screening and FCI pedigree...so...
You have no right mix had to call them.

Repeating: we are not asking you for help.

Last edited by Norky; 04-05-2012 at 12:34.
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Old 05-05-2012, 14:37   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norky View Post
Just you think doubt about the origin of the Hungarian dogs.
No, not JUST me. There are many more people, including the owner of the "pink vlcaks", in-bred descendants of CW dogs. http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=20855
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Old 05-05-2012, 15:07   #13
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I'll tell you again Rona:

However, I wanted to prove the origin of my dogs.
But no answer .... as always.

In this respect: it was my dogs have formal screening and FCI pedigree...so...
You have no right mix had to call them.


and....:
As you prove that mixes the Hungarian dogs??

How to verify the origin of my dogs?

But you can not get an answer to this again ....

Until then: Do not you dare slander!
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Old 05-05-2012, 18:18   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norky View Post
Until then: Do not you dare slander!
Please, control yourself! I'm not using offensive language and see no reason why you should!
Neither did I write anywhere that the dogs are mixes, nor did I accuse anybody of lying or cheating. I'm not Admin so I can't tell you what he/she thinks or plans to do.

I only reacted to what people were writing here. Common sense says that if they are any doubts connected with ANY DOG'S parenthood (not only Hungarian ones!), the easiest and simplest way is to conduct DNA tests and find the truth. This has been successfully done many times in various countries and it's not a problem provided breeders and owners cooperate.
But if the parents' owners plainly refuse to cooperate it makes people wonder why. The first and most logical answer is that either they have something to hide or fear what the test results would be. That's a bit to little to call it slander!
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Old 07-05-2012, 18:57   #15
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I'm doing DNA tests ...but compared with whom?

So what's the solution?
Delete the faulty thinking dogs?
This is the simplest ...

I was doing everything clearly .... the screening, EVERYTHING ...

And now what can I do?
Or no answer to this again?
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Old 07-05-2012, 19:38   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norky View Post
I'm doing DNA tests ...but compared with whom?

So what's the solution?
Delete the faulty thinking dogs?
This is the simplest ...

I was doing everything clearly .... the screening, EVERYTHING ...

And now what can I do?
Or no answer to this again?
if your breeder won't cooperate with providing DNA, then perhaps the only thing to do is start over with new breeding stock?
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Old 08-05-2012, 13:14   #17
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if your breeder won't cooperate with providing DNA, then perhaps the only thing to do is start over with new breeding stock?
Or turn to the local breed club or National Kennel Club for assistance and help? I'm sure the institutions have proper administrative tools to make certain members (breeders/owners) have their dogs tested by independant vets and labs!!!
Having been collecting memebership and show fees, clubs should now feel obliged to offer their honest members support in sorting out such problem. Especially, if they claim they follow FCI mission and goals!

I think that if half of the time and energy spent on blaming wd and Admin were spent on attempts to clear up the mess by institutins who are formally supposed to deal with such cases, everything would have been ironed out long time ago.
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Old 08-05-2012, 23:31   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rona View Post
Or turn to the local breed club or National Kennel Club for assistance and help? I'm sure the institutions have proper administrative tools to make certain members (breeders/owners) have their dogs tested by independant vets and labs!!!
Having been collecting memebership and show fees, clubs should now feel obliged to offer their honest members support in sorting out such problem. Especially, if they claim they follow FCI mission and goals!
I wish they'ed have...
But look at France for instance, neither the club (if there is one) nor the French Kennel Club does anything against the Capiez, Domer etc. crosses.

Michael
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:12   #19
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I wish they'ed have...
But look at France for instance, neither the club (if there is one) nor the French Kennel Club does anything against the Capiez, Domer etc. crosses.
Michael, are you sure somebody has asked them to do something? Such organizations rarely act at their own inititive! They need formal requests which could give them a reason to act.

Some time ago I suggested here the international vlcak community should prepare and sign petition to the French Kennel Club and FCI to support the minority (as it seemed) of French owners and breeders who wanted to have the origin of their dogs explained. People from other countries declared help and support, but except ONE PM there was no response on the French side! Even Lorry, who should be most interested (!) told me off . Taking under consideration the number of posts which the French produced on the Big Bad Admin (showing they are able to write ) I have doubts if anybody has been seriously interested in solving the problem.

The same applies to the Hungarian KC. Has anybody formally requested their kynological, FCI affiliated authorities for help? If the answer is positive and the club did nothing... that's too bad!
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Old 09-05-2012, 22:08   #20
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Respected MEOE members, my dear friends with dogs!

I inform you about the fact that our planned programs and the announced dog shows will be held. We accept additional entries for Komárom International Dogshow. The entry deadline of the exhibition is extended until 15 May . In connection with the additional function and services of the MEOE I will inform you next week.

With greetings,

Mr András Korózs

President

MEOE, Hungary
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