|
Wolves and wolfdogs All about animals similar to CzW... Information about other Wolfdogs: Saarloos Wolfhound, Lupo Italiano... |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
18-05-2011, 22:55 | #21 | ||||
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 370
|
Quote:
Quote:
BUT - there is wolf in the breed. Just like Saarloos and Lupi Italianos and (unofficially) German shepherds (moreso in DDR and Czech working lined dogs). I'm not going to deny that fact. There are quirks (and I don't mean that as a bad thing) in their personality that are not from the German shepherd side so where did they come from? The only time we've seen these quirks, and they were in a much less scale, was in a Czech line German shepherd whose ancestors were part of the vlcak program but stayed on the GSD side (despite the fact that kennels deny this). When people start to deny where things come from that's where problems start. I don't deny that herding (as in a dog herding sheep) is modified hunting. I also don't deny killer whale and dolphin shows are hunting demonstrations - just modified to look entertaining to us ignorant humans. When you look at it hat way you respect it and when you lose that respect problems happen. Yes, they are a vlcak and the vlcak is a breed on it's own. We're far enough out from the initial project so we can consider them their own breed. This doesn't mean you can deny where the breed came from. Quote:
Quote:
The temperament issues are with Pollux (who has washed out of the training program but we may give him another try this fall). He is skittish and doesn't like strangers. I've been working on this a lot, giving neighbors treats and telling them NOT to make eye contact - just have their hand out with treats and it's been (slowly) coming along. He is much better than he used to be and he is beautiful (I think that is his saving grace) and very playful and loves the szhutzhund game (if we get his off-lead obedience down we might be able to put a schutzhund title on him). He's an odd fellow, out on the field he's confident and acts like he's the best one out there. He has it in him we're just trying to get it out more often. Edit: Here is some Strongheart video I put on Youtube:
__________________
Last edited by draggar; 18-05-2011 at 23:11. |
||||
18-05-2011, 23:45 | #22 | |
Moderator
|
Quote:
Some people have said that Cita z Ps appears in both CsV (as F2) and GSD pedigrees, but I've yet to see proof it's the same bitch as well. Personally, as long as I can't substantiate it, I would not repeat it because it seems to me to be a sort of 'justification' of the breed which may or may not be real, which I don't think is needed in either case. As long as it's as unprovable as a rumor, I'd let rumors alone. Last edited by yukidomari; 18-05-2011 at 23:50. |
|
19-05-2011, 00:01 | #23 |
Howling Member
|
Jing,
A trip down memory lane, post #13 (maybe it's hearsay, but I trust Margo! ): http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=334
__________________
"What lies behind us and what lies ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us."~Henry David Thoreau http://www.galomyoak.com |
19-05-2011, 00:17 | #24 |
Moderator
|
Thanks for the link; According to there, it seems like the sources are the stud books and also the book:
"100 Jahre - Der Deutsche Schäferhund". Sonderausgabe der SV-Zeitung. Verein für Deutsche Schäferhunde (SV) e.V. April 1999" Will have to dig around. Thanks! PS. Trip down memory lane indeed - funny to see posts by Tina @ New Zion kennels/ Shiloh Shepherds. Last edited by yukidomari; 19-05-2011 at 00:33. |
19-05-2011, 08:04 | #25 | |||||
Distinguished Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Kraków
Posts: 3,509
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Pollux is really lucky he has got you! I'm sure one day your efforts will bring great results, even if they may vary from Sara's friend's original plans and assumptions. Last edited by Rona; 19-05-2011 at 11:41. Reason: spel.err. |
|||||
19-05-2011, 09:03 | #26 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 369
|
Originally posted by Rona:
"If you even innocently compare CSV with wolfdogs (which are uncomparable, because the latter is not a breed!),...." and "When I read that selection process is being carried on by wolfdogs makers, I don't know if we should cry or laugh. " This is exactly right ! And that´s the main thing and the big difference !! Last edited by Silvester; 19-05-2011 at 09:05. |
21-05-2011, 12:13 | #27 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 35
|
Hey guys, i was reading about your arguing about how wolfish they are, and someone mentioned 12generations from wolfs in breeding.. Is that correct? Can you all type how many gen. your dogs are from wolfs?Just curious.. As my pup is supposed to be closer..
|
21-05-2011, 13:04 | #28 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 35
|
Hey guys, i was reading about your arguing about how wolfish they are, and someone mentioned 12generations from wolfs in breeding.. Is that correct? Can you all type how many gen. your dogs are from wolfs?Just curious.. As my pup is supposed to be closer..
|
21-05-2011, 14:21 | #29 | |||
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 370
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Also, you don't always need recent wolf genetics to make a dog wolfy (yes, I know, I sound like I'm contradicting myself). We bred a little of Finnish Spitz and still work closely with the local breeder (who is a good friend of my wife's) and they are *extremely* wolfy in temperament even though they are thought to be one of the oldest breeds of dogs (don't forget, all dogs today are descendants of either modern day wolves, a now extinct variety of wolf, or some common ancestor (like humans and apes). This can also from selective breeding (which is what helps keep a vlcak's lines a vlcak).
__________________
Last edited by draggar; 21-05-2011 at 14:23. |
|||
21-05-2011, 15:40 | #30 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 35
|
Aha, 9. generation is yours?.. That is closer. My pup is supposed to be the 6th generation.
I would like to hear others to tell about it too, thanks |
21-05-2011, 15:43 | #31 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 35
|
Hm but i didn't understand what you ment with 9 generation from "vlcak" ?
Isnt vlčak as in czech ment to mean "wolfdog"? :-) If you maybe didn't understand i'm asking how many generations since there were wolfs in breeding until there were no wolfs anymore.. Probably i complicated it now even more |
21-05-2011, 16:01 | #32 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 370
|
In the USA we're calling them "Czechoslovakian Vlcaks". I think in the UK they call them "Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs".
Here in the USA when you say "wolfdog" people automatically assume it's a hybrid (odd though that "wolfhound" is OK?). Hybrids have a very bad reputation due to a ton of misinformation and lack of education. (But I'm sure some of it is earned from poor breeders and owners, too). Also, Luna is 9 generations from that vlcak, there is one generation past him but I'm not sure if they're GSDs, Carpathians, or vlcaks. Luna is a 9th generation progeny of the project. Think of this - 9 generations over 50 years, that's about 5 1/2 years in between generations on average. Considering she is a first generation American we can assume these 9 generations aren't "Americanized" breedings (breed many for looks). So I think it is safe to assume that either the breeders in Luna's lineage took their time to research and bred to dogs that produced well. I highly doubt any dogs were first bred at that age so the breeders were able to see what worked and what didn't and by the time Luna's ancestors were born they had it fined tuned pretty well.
__________________
|
|
|