Mixes : CW
 

But the red pups are from Sibir and Thalia Crying Wolf... :confused:

Je découvre ce message avec stupeur !

Dois je comprendre que vous écrivez publiquement, que j'ai produit des chiots typés saarloos avec Rambo comme père ?

Merci de me dire si je traduit de façon incorrecte ou si c'est réellement ce que vous avez osé écrire et ce qu'il faut donc comprendre ?

Et si vous êtes en mesure d'écrire que Rambo a eu des chiots roux avec une femelle de chez moi (car Rambo, n'a jamais sailli une femelle qui ne m'appartenait pas) j'aimerai bien savoir de quelle femelle il s'agit ...."vos sources" ont bien dû vous donner des informations complètes ? Non ?

Si vous vous basez aux données inscrites sur WD, (pour étayer votre information de MIX) vous êtes sans doute bien placé pour savoir, que c'est une invention de toute pièce, Rambo n'a jamais sailli une prétendue Di'Mystic Wolf, qui je le répète pour la centième fois, a été purement inventé.

Ce chien a 3 sources de descendance différentes :
Bubka de New Flame, Cinthia Spod Dumbiera et Di'Sun Shy Inn de MLS, et d'aucune de ces femelles, il n'est sorti de chiot roux, au nez marron...

J'attends donc VOTRE réponse
à savoir : avec quelle femelle, il y a eu des chiots roux avec Rambo, chez moi ??

Le lendemain ....

Je constate, une fois de plus, que l'Admin, qui se permet de d'écrire publiquement sur ma production, est soudain devenu muet, quand il s'agit de répondre à une question toute simple que je lui pose :

"Avec quelle femelle, Rambo Crying Wolf a-t-il eu des chiots rouges, nés chez moi " ?

C'est fascinant cette faculté, que vous avez de lancer des rumeurs de façon publique avec une certaine aisance et rapidité et que lorsqu'il faut répondre à une question toute simple, d'un coup, il n'y a plus personne pour prendre ses responsabilités et répondre à la dite question, dont VOUS ETES, vous-même, à l'origine ....

Vous devez pourtant bien savoir de quelle femelle il s'agit, puisque vous savez l'affirmer sur ce Forum ?!

Alors ASSUMEZ vos écrits et répondez moi !

I have a question to you - I hope you wil answer it: I was informed that there were three red puppies born. Two of Sibir and one of Rambo? If not - what was the third puppy? Who are the parents?

I hope you will understand it - I'm receiving MANY emails about this problem. People are affraid to write here on the forum because they wil be attacked in their countries. But they send me a lot of information via private emails.
At the same time I know that there can be some rumors and some gossips amond the information I get - it is why I will publish all suspicions here on forum. I give the possiblity to clear the whole situation.

The goal is not to ban/punish any breeders but to find out which dogs are/can be MIXES because nobody serious want to use any mixed dogs in their kennels. You goal is to protect the interest breeder of purebreed CsWs. An we can do it only when we will check/verify any information we get.

Lorry, don't be cynical. I asked you a plain & easy question a couple of weeks ago which you never answered. If you don't bother to anwer questions why do you expect others to answer yours? :roll:

I point out that the question that I ask that they reply is strictly related to an assertion of the Admin who claims that Rambo is also the father of a brown puppy born at home ....
It is therefore quite legitimate that I ask basic information:

Who female ?

I did not ask to be re-projected into the arena of slander on WD ...
I have not asked what we said the wrong things on my farm

So if I want to be cynical, I am ....
I like to think I still have this freedom of expression, failing to use my native language for m express!

As for your question, I do not even know which one it is (talk to me on the French Forum, if you want to be sure I am informed of your questions)

But I said, if I decide not to answer you, it's my absolute right, in the sense that I did not defame you, I do not broadcast false information about your dogs and therefore, humanly speaking, I owe you nothing, not even any answer, if I sing well!

This is not the case of Admin, who invented the false rumors ... I should at least answer my question, is the least we can do!

In addition, I am "forbidden" to write in French and English on the forum to be honest I hate to write in English because I'm not sure 100% of what I write ....

1. I didn't go to the French forum, it was you who came to the English forum and I took all the trouble to translate your posts.

2. I don't speak French. According to your principles, I shouldn't write on the French forum, so I don't. Logically, neither should you write here.

2. Here is my question:
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showpos...&postcount=115

I, just like a few other members of this forum wanted to help you solve the problem with pink CSV by offering to write letters/ petitions to several Kennel Clubs and FCI. However knowing your sensitivity, we wanted to make sure you would not blame us later for doing something against your will or plans.

I assume this is a very polite and elegant (French wolfdog.org style?;)) answer to a question of somebody who offered your their free time and help. :twisted: Thank you - at least we know where we stand. 8)

Well I still want to attempt with letters and petitions. It's a shame Lorry doesn't respond but we can still go ahead.. we can go off of internet archiving sites that will be guaranteed to still be there instead of taken down.

Though it would be nice to have Lorry's consent and cooperation.

As I know those 3 pups are from the same litter from Sibir and Thalia Crying Wolf. 10 pups was born, 3 reds... All the litter (even the 3 red one) has been test and all the pups are from Sibir Crying Wolf and Thalia Crying Wolf :)

CWs
 

Hi Admin,

can you explain why a lot of the crying wolf dog have an ! behind crying wolf?

and also why Fallko Kollárov dvor (_!_) has this mark???

greetings judith
owner crying wolf Bárány

Can I know why my W Crying wolf females have (_?_) by their name? why has something similar my Valska Od Úhoště?
Admin, have you got in hand ANY document about it they are some mix, etc?
If no, can you delete these nonsens?

Can I know why my C litter (lupifelix)and my dog cuma, have this sign (_!_) near their name?

The father is echo crying wolf,but i' think the e litter crying wolf ,is clear to all,is from hitt and arys.

The litter E, is obvious to all, ... to all those know just something about this breed, which was generated by Arys and Hitt and there are very strong similarity between these dogs and their parents and half brothers.

In my litter there are puppies very similar to their ancestor hitt and arys,dogs that ,as you know,come from other breeders.

I'dont know why only the e litter from arys have this sign!

I'm ready to do all dna tests you need ,but i'trust in wd team and i'm waiting for clear answer.

No one know yet what is the meaning of the symbols (_!_) and (_?_), we're all waiting Admin write about it explaining what is it and the precise meaning of each new symbol.

vom Hause Norky kennel
 

Crying Wolf Lara ..... (!) What is the problem??
Crying Wolf Odette .... (?) What is the problem??

I do not understand .... ALL data you inject ....
Even the kennel name is deleted ....
That's a shame, is outrageous!!

?????????????????????????
 

And....
Crying Wolf Lara have ALL PAPER AND HD SREENING the official breeding.
Your comment: "no more" breeding status.
What does it take you?

Who will explain this to me out??????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????

You maturity of my dogs and me .... and you do not answer ....
Thank you Admin!

I'm not Admin, and I might be wrong, but to me the -!- shows that a dog comes from a line of dog(s) that were bred by a breeder who had "suspicious" litters in his/her kennel.

Seems to me it does not concern the dog or dogs, but breeder (s). Should owners of such marked dogs imposed pressure on the "suspicious" breeders and made them test the parents of the litters in question, the problem would probably be very quickly sorted out and the marks would hopefully disapear. Simple, easy and the last chance to have it solved because dogs live much shorter than humans and soon there won't be many living dogs to test :cry: I suppose this is what some breeders count on.:(

If any of you finds it hard to have the breeder of his dog(s) taken blood for DNA testing, it only means you've chosen a poor and unreliable kennel.:|

vom Hause Norky kennel
 

The problem:
Lara Crying Wolf "clean" line, also Odette.
The suspicion arose not mixing.
And I, as a breeder .... what can I do??
There is also evidence of the shakes?
Because if not, this is slander ....

Again I ask:

What am I to do??

and
from my dog I take blood ....
and what do I get it??
We call it a mixture of my dogs?
example:
Crying Wolf Lara
Father: Hron Radov Dvor
Mother: Uma Crying Wolf
Which is mixture?
And on what basis?
Do you think the FCI pedigree certificate is false?
What it can do without proof?

I believe all CW litters where the sire is living at the kennels of Crying Wolf (not outside stud) are marked for obvious reasons. But it is not marked as mixes or whatever, only that they are suspect, I suppose.

If a kennel cannot guarantee the father of their litters, and is uncooperative about resolving issues, as I think is apparent from the atypical litter(s) born in France, then I don't think one can assume the same about any other litters born there? Just my opinion.

Dear Admin!

If you have evidence for the symbols, write it down for everyone, if you don't, then take down the symbols immediately.
Because if someone goes to the court, you will have to pay much if you don't write down the truth.
I'm sure all of us would like to know the meaning behind these symbols, but we still have no answers for them. I only write something about someone if I can back it up with proof. Or is the money leading you to wreck other's reputation apart? This way, you'll never become a good dog breader.

I'm waiting for your answer, even in PM.

Varga István, Neckartal Kennel
Hungary

I think Admin had made mention of this upcoming change in earlier posts. For example:

http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showpos...30&postcount=6

Though the thread was primarily about French dogs, it can be applicable to all dogs where there is reasonable question as to the integrity of their pedigree.

I believe - again, my belief, Admin may clarify later - that all the marked dogs are basically on a 'to-watch' basis. Not that they have been proven to be. And if DNA tests will be done all the marked dog and all earlier marked generations, it will be clarified.

At this point I think many dogs from Crying Wolf kennels are marked if the stud used was also a dog residing at Crying Wolf (and not if the stud dog is belonging to somebody else and living elsewhere). It is because there is evidence that the purported sire on the pedigree is not who was actually used (for example, appearance of red-colored dogs). It doesn't even mean the marked dogs are possible mixes - it could be that the stud dog is a CZW, just not the one on the pedigree.

I guess a dog can also be marked if in their shared litter there were very suspicious dogs which may be mixes..

There are a lot of IFs..

But at the same time one cannot deny there are some 'funny' and 'miraculous' things showing up in litters! I think it would be in everyone's and the breed's best interest to seek the resolution of their dogs' pedigree.

Thanks to the widespread use of the site wolfdog.org in Europe, the behavior of the owner of the domain (Margo Peron) and the Administrator officially declared (Paula Pandolfo) makes them complicit with this phantom admin of defamation and unfair competition, offenses punishable by European laws implemented by individual member states, especially in the Criminal Code. I agree with Martha that it is not worth to an individual owner to sue for them, but if the situation is not resolved quickly, I invite anyone interested to contact me to study the possibility to make a common cause. It's cleare that with any proof and no evidence of nothing, admin can not sign as a mix a dog that have all document complitely in order. The only reason admin have is the one to preserve owner of the website, is kennel and his soldier as Daive is in a world where today competition is strong and them dog are not at level of other. As reading in other page now is time that wolfdog.org understand that he is not referrent of the breed.

Massimiliano Paini and Zenith od Uhoste (purebreed - world winner 2011 - top dog enci 2011)

Proofs, proofs! Where are the proofs?!.... :lol::lol::lol:

I hope you FULLY understand what you are wrote right now and you know what will be the consequences according to the European Law in the case of unfounded slanders and aspersions. I know you are writing those words at the command of your breeder but I do not care about it any more: it is a serious case and I have already enough of the lies spread by your breeder and also by owners of her puppies like you.

So please prepare the proofs and post them here within 24 hours. I hope it will be more than the photos manipulated by your breeder which she posted on Facebook. She has already compromised herself enough as a breeder and a member of the CsW community - she was a black sheep in the Czech Club when she started the breeding in CZ and it seems she decided to keep the way.
But now I wait for real proofs from YOU. After 24 hours I will start to ask for consequences against your person. Because freedom of speech in this forum do not mean that everybody can post any lies without and proofs! And it apply also to you!

At the moment I can write in public comment to your text: YOU ARE A LIAR. And as opposed to you I will be able to prove it in the court. I have already enough of your whole gang which consist of people sick with envy whose goal is to blame others. And who are doing it just for fun: without any proofs. I know your breeder is going crazy as after so many years of breeding she didn't reached ANYTHING. Her kennel name is famous but not thanks to the achievements of her dogs but "thanks" to the topics like those:
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=19642
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21527
Or because of angry words said and written by other breeders who were landered by her.
It is really sad to see other (I though serious) people are joining her. But it is YOUR choice.

Now I'm waiting for your apologies (I know that you do not show any proofs because they do not exist). 24 hours.

The topic of Daiva you should really leave! Yes, there is a competition in the CsW world. And it is strong. And if there is a GOOD breeder then the only possibility to "fight" with him is to spread the lies about him. And it is what Hanka do for example about Daiva. They are the BEST examples of it - of the sick situation which appears in the CsW world.

I have no idea why Hanka is so crazy about Daiva. So envy about her. But it is visible already since several years. I think Hanka is envy because Daiva is on a level unattainable for her when it comes to the information about breed and knowledge about Wolfdogs. Hanka is breeding dogs longer but I really doubt if she will ever know so much about them as Daiva do. It is my opinion.
Some people say it is the "stud dog fight" - both own sons of Kondor but while the dogs of Daiva became much more popular and because people wrote many positive opinions about him the funny lies started to appear. About missing tooth, aggression, wrong bites. Guess who is the author of these lies? BINGO.
And she is spreading the lies about Daivas dog even if everybody an see it is her invention (the dog is already champion of several countries and was judges and bonitated by judges from the origin countries who didn't found any faults).
Anyway she is keeping to spread the lies. Daiva was for a long time more than that. Till she discovered that Hanka is doing much more tha "stud dog fighting". One time they met in Latvia(?) person who wanted a puppy from Hanka. The woman spoke so much bad opinions about Daivas dogs. After a talk she send Daiva email(s?) she get from the "Czech CsW guru" - Hanka. I saw one and I know what Hanka wrote about Daivas dogs. LIES, LIES, LIES. Really nice dogs became "aggressive without any reasons", aso. Believe me - for me it was enough to convince me that Hanka is a unscrupulous person. Since this time I do not wish any contact with her. The only letter I saw would be enough for Daiva to drag Hanka to the court.
I understand why Daiva did't do it: on the contrary to Hanka she is not breeding dogs for money. She do not need to care for the "market" and selling huge number of puppies. She really loves this breed. People who know Daiva, and who know what is going on in the CsW world do not care for people like Hanka - Hanka will be not able to destroy Daivas good image as breeder even if she will start to spread 2x more lies about her. But at the same time I really understand why Daiva is so angry about Hanka and I support it.

And it do not only apply to breeders from other countries. There is a really good kennel in CZ - z Údolí ticha. With great dogs and breeder who really care for his puppies and is doing really good work! I already heard REALLY bad opinions about his dogs said by Hanka. Only because this man is doing a great work in CZ and people from abroad appreciate his work. It was enough for her to blame his dogs.

So not Daiva is a "soldier" of anyone. She is just a victim of lies spread by Hanka.
But YOU ARE a soldier of Hanka. Unfortunately I doubt if you can be proud of it. :roll:

Margo
1) I’m able to understand when I make a mistake, so you are right, from 10 days ago 14/03/2012 when the ownership of the domain were removal it’s not more possible to reed who are today owner and official admin of the website.
2) It’s cleare that 10 day ago were difference, but the only prove easily to see is older of about two year, when you confirm what I said (http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=13252)
3) Due to that the only people that can resolve the matter is simply (due to the reason that you are not) is new owner/admin.
4) One question, who is that should command me? This point is not clear, I saw that wolfdog.org marked my dog as (_?_) and I pretend that this was cancelled immediately due to the reason that as you said “you know what will be the consequences according to the European Law in the case of unfounded slanders and aspersions”, so please if you know who is new admin give him/her my message
5) Hanka Hanka Hanka, I’m really not interest in matter about you Hanka Daiva (a people that I don’t know, so I’m sure we are speaking of really nice person, the same for you and Hanka) but those are not my problem, I’m asking for myself and my dog. Breeding, money and so on are not my problem I’m simply a people that want respected his right, I’m not a breeder I’ve not a kennel and I have several friend owner of many kennel in all Europe. For me are all friend without problem.
6) As you said competition is strong in CsW world, and also in this point I’m not involved, my work is other, but at the same time there is competition and competition, what wolfdog.org is doing is simply unacceptable.
7) It’s clear that for me to, if there is a battle that should win to preserve our wonderful breed is the one about mix. It’s clear that what wolfdog.org is doing now is only a big confusion only use full for somebody.


Ciao

Margo, the problems between Hanka and Daiva aren't us problems. They must solve that between them.
We just want to know what does mean those symbols. Why certain dogs are ! and others ? !

Of course it is not your problem. But it is the reason of many lies spread around - also by Max Paini.

Max, I gave up administration of Wolfdog long time ago exactly because I didn't wanted to be involved in any wars where I was not the involved part. For a long time I was the goal of gossips spread by all these producers who were angry that Wolfdog.org exists: they were angry that Wolfdog made impossible the cheating of the new owners: it was no more possible for them to cheat about the HD-results, bonitation results and working or show results. It made them so furious.

Some time ago they were able to pull me in their mess by making me responsible for everything. Now it is over and believe me - I will not allow to do the same now. If my name appears in similar topics one more time - I will not let it...

Previously, I was able to pull in their swamp.

Unfortunately exactly Hanka is a person who is spreading the lies about 'Margo the administrator' (for example of Facebook). What you wrote here is just an echo of her words.

It is only one point on the huge list of lies spread by her. And the reasons of her lies are clear to me. But this point concerns me and I'm not going to let it so.

PS. About the '!' and '?' you must ask the people who are responsible for it. I asked some time ago and there is still no answer...

So this is how one 'saves' the breed?

I don't think so.

This is just a desperate act out of frustration, stirring the pot, not a solution. Not at all.

We have a saying: when pointing at someone else with one finger, it is actually pointing at one self with the other 4 fingers.

And there's valid reason for frustration... :|

I thought the rule is still true, that one is not guilty until proven guilty.
But, correct me if I'm wrong.

Maybe, but as said, not a solution.

Hundreds of dogs, suddenly being marked as suspicious, without further research or investigation, owners being told to contact breeders, it is all insane.

Replace the dogs with humans and Adolf Hitler would have been proud of this action.

It is disgusting, no more no less.

Well, let me ask you the same question. Where are the proofs for the accusations for all these dogs being marked? All proofs individually, please.

I personally take offense to the comparison of an attempt by wolfdog.org to compel owners and breeders to demand DNA testing of some specimans of *a PURE BREED OF DOGS with very clear breedig boundaries* which come from lines of breeders tied to very suspicious looking and acting breedings....to the actions or thoughts of Adolph Hitler on humanity. I think wolfdog.org is making a point for people to see that the problem is potentially not limited to a handful of dogs...but can grow exponentially in just a few years.

For me, when someone lies, it also makes me question the whole integrity of that person - and in the case of a breeder, the integrity of the breeding program. I don't particularly like the anonymous nature of Admin, and have several friends upset with (-!-) beside their dog's names, who I believe are probably pure...but really, as a breeder and lover of the breed, the thing that unsettles me most is the complacency of breed clubs, breeders, owners to allow mixed breedings to go on....and quietly "sweep them under the rug". Complacency to quietly allow bad things to go on, and not become involved...the root of the problem being clearly suspicious dogs passed off as pure CSVs...is a dangerous mindset. Always, I think we should have an expectation of truth, of science in dog breeding...and not of blind faith.

Galamyoak,

I think you misread my reaction.

On topic,

I cannot believe there is any owner on this forum, that doesnot agree to the wish for a healthy breed of our beloved Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs, all according to the regulations in different countries. I also wish to believe, that all of us here condemn the actions of breeders or others, who willingly and knowingly break the rules and regulations or who have mal intentions for our beloved breed.

Having said that, this action we are discussing here, is uncalled for and doesnot solve anything.

First of all, the admin function here seems to be an anonymous one, as no one, including moderators, knows who exactly is the admin.

And people should in all cases take responsibility for their acts and come forward with their identity, when blaming others or even worse, mark others, without even being clear, what the marking exactly stands for.

But what frightens me the most, is the fact that there are true belivers, who think such actions, as from the admin's side is to be praised and owners, who have no idea what is going on, are being told to go their respective breeders and ask for clarification.

And even worse, some here seem to even enjoy themselves, when owners feel upset about uncalled actions and marking.

How can people take joy in putting up people against eachother, when the actual solution asked for is a worldwide group of people, owners and breeders, who share a passion for the same: the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog.


If you wish to solve this matter, work on a solution with those responsible for the problem, don't include those, who are not part of the problem and brand them as guilty for something, that has not even been clarified.

Exactly like Loco stated, no double standards please.

Where is it written dogs are suspicious of anything? :shock:

It's disgusting and insane to make such comparison.:evil: It's you who are indecently arrogant to write such thing in a forum where there are people who lost their relatives in Nazi concentration camps!

Shame of you!!!

I kindly ask the moderator for a reaction!!!

As I understand it, 'those responsible for the problem' don't wish to cooperate. And owners of these kennels' dogs are not really 'part of the problem' but can be 'part of the solution'.. instead of seeing this mark as something terrible, maybe one can see it as an incentive to seek clarity with their breeders. I see nothing wrong with that. A breeder owes it to their puppy buyers anyway as it is.

Rona,

As far as there is a comparison, it is about the thought of generalizing individual cases to all genetic descendants and marking them, based on non proven accusations.

Work on solutions, not on creating stories, I would suggest to those, supporting this action.

Still, IMO you should apologize for using it! :|

The question is how reliable this website is at the moment. Several dogs are marked with ? or ! without any form of an explanation.

It looks to me almost like a withcraft to several breeders, and without any eplanation. As it is a private website wouldn't it be easier to just stop this website as nobody can be trusted?

Maybe you can start by removing al the information from my dog that I did provide to you, all the medical and pictures please. Thank you for you help

greetings judith

Dear Admin!

Please, delete all of our dogs from the database, for I don't want you to put shame on me anymore. You wrote that I breed CZW-Mix. Tomorrow, I'll demand a police investigation against you. I'll report it in the National Court, I'll demand the delete of wolfdog.org because of false datas, I'll request a compensation of €100.000.

Or you can just make a public apology to everyone whom you had given false datas from. If you have no evidence of a "data", I'll want it to be fixed.

Neckartal Kennel - Hungary

Ow, this one was creative! :lol:

Dear Nebulosa,

The people who know me know that my life is dedicated for the dogs. I understand that the mixes will have to go. But you cannot accuse anyone without evidence. Admin wrote "breeders of CZW-mixes". If you want to know the Neckartal Kennel's full name:

Von Neckartal 1977 - FCI reg.

But it's possible that you wasn't even born yet. Do you dare to give out the Admin's name? Because you know. If not, it will come to light sooner or later.

So let's say I hold something against you and I start spreading the news. All rumours, no facts or substance.

Then I tell people it's in your genes.

Would you go to your family and seek for clarity?

Wholeheartedly agree with you.

A witchhunt, based on non proven accusations.

If we sentence people, based on accusations, it would be a very sad world.

No facts or substance? So you mean to say for example that puppies of strange colors are not factually atypical to the breed? That dogs related to the parents of these puppies aren't also suspicious?

Sorry, I don't know Admin to tell me that; if I had a dog for example related to anything like this, yes I would seek clarification from the breeder as common sense.

Anyway, there haven't been any 'accusations'.. we don't know what it all means yet..

You just found the right word: suspicious.

Are we to mark dogs, when things get suspicious?

Or should we do further investigation, to come to facts instead?

Imagine, you get sentenced, based on suspicious behaviour.

Again, I want to be clear, I am a hundred percent against mixed breeding, under the flag of the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, in fact it is the sole reason for me to join the Dutch breeding association here in The Netherlands as a board member.

But my aim is not to act on emotion and suspicion, but to get facts on the table.

After all, if we want a pure and healthy breed, it is all about facts, no more, no less.

Actually, I really understand you and agree on some things. But this is the fact - it shouldn't have to be Wolfdog.org and breeders who use Wolfdog.org to investigate anything. It is each country's Kennel Club which has the responsibility to do that, but it doesn't seem that is forthcoming.

What else can be done except to write and share on one's personal site, therefore, the suspicions they have? Otherwise, it could be that suspicious (yes, suspicious!) dogs be used over and over and spread wider in the gene pool then it already is...

It's not the best way because the best way would be that the Kennel Club of each country in which suspicious dogs reside would take action to clarify it themselves...... :| I wish it too. I believe such complaints have already been lodged with the KC's to no avail...

Yes, I already told her name in Czech forum, but as I wrote there, it will be of no help.
You're all trying to find some breeder or owner to blame for find a stupid excuse like "this owner/breeder is doing it for personal attack/for promote his own kennel/his friends kennel or so", while the Admin is simply not related with breeding world.
That kind of immaturity put Pavel and Margo to run away from wolfdog administration.
Now we have a non-related-with-breeding Admin and it's users' fault YOU ALL ASKED FOR THIS.

Her complete name is Lucinda Ferreira.

Dear Admin,
I´m also interested in the meanings of -!- and -?-

My Dog Catori Liza Whispering Wolf is marked as -?-...:(
..her father Azrael Crying wolf is no more for breeding...without any proof...
Mona Krotkovskeho Dvora is -!-...also...
My friends male "Kosak Zlatá Palz" is no more for breeding and -?- as well:(...
even Blue is born before all the mixes appeared and you can see big differences between "B" and "C" litter de la Louve Blanche.

I´m sure that the dogs are pure...
...and like all the other I want to know the plan of the admin. What should we do? What are the reasons? Are there some more proofs? I understand the problem with "S" and "T" litter Crying Wolf...but what about all the older litters- to my mind there is no reason to mark them as suspicious.

I´m really looking forward to an explanation.
Tanja

I know our points of view do not differ that much.

And like I said, I believe the correct way is to have the official breeding organizations to develop a vision and strategy for the future of the breed, define rules and regulations, live thise rules and promote them. Get breeders to sign and test, support them in bringing them on board, but not exclude them or mark them as suspicious. It will work against the breed at the end of the day.

It's a long and difficult process, but with passion and a vision, it will prove to be the right way, I absolutely believe so.

Y litter?????
 

Problem Crying Wolf Y-litter?
All litter is problematic to you!
(example: CW. Lara, CW.Odette etc. etc.)

The Hungarian Kennel Club does not help, because do nothing against the private side.

(I asked, but can not help in this case.)

What can a MEOE,to prove out to you the pedigrees authenticity...but I think that that is not enough for you.

Sadly, it can do anything without proof ....

I'm doing anything in vain, not only do I clear my dogs name
before you.

Therefore, any unnecessary strain ...this is all politics ....

To ME???? I'm sorry but I think you mix some different things. AS I told: my vision of banning litters and dogs is a bit different than this of Admin. I have less problems with CW dogs and more with French (I think it is not fair to set on the same level litters of CW which are MAYBE mixed with dogs from "de la Louve blanche" which are mixed FOR SURE).

About the Y-litter: finally you must understand that (much) more people see that there is something REALLY wrong with Crying Wolf dogs. The Y-litter was reported by Hana KAufmanova from Czech Republic. One I can say to you: for 100% she is not my friend. :) And as far I see she is a big enemy of the new Admin. She is also the ex-friend of Edith so if she decided to report the litter(s) - there must be some other reason which are known by her.
I think the given reasons were really good because it was accepted by the Czech Kennel Club who asked the Slovakian Kennel club for DNA tests. If Hana would not have any reasons they would never accept it - they do not accept "gossips".

For me it is not a problem. I think the Y-litter owners are even lucky. Because after the DNA tests will be done at least one CW "line" will be happy because they will be DNA tested and nobody else will spread any gossips about them.

You forgot Sibir and Thalia - the parents of the red Wolfdogs looking like pure Saarloos - so similar to the Saarloos owned by Edith... :?
Don't you see that there is really something going on? And it must be cleared...

Who is owner of the Wolfdog?

Exactly Margo. And not to forget Domer's and Turkilla's mix-litters.

Michael

Mix
 

Not Margo, I do not see that my dogs are mixes ...
The admin and without any evidence to call them.
Interesting .... not even a judge said that they do not have the kind of breedcharacter ....
Red mix or purple mix?
Without proof? Bold enough to say this ...

I'm sorry that my club has not taken .... and I do not know anything ...

Admin????
 

Can someone tell me out the editor of this page?
I need the name and contact details.

Thank you

Aniko

Automatic editing of this page?????
 

This means that no one edit this page ...
Hahaha:lol: ..... no one dares to take the smear campaign?

This is a comedy ... but I think says it all.

Why is there an (-?-) after my dogs name, Buia Whispering Wolf?
Why does the pedigree of this dog says that she is NO MORE for breeding?
Why is my kennel name not in the list of Dutch kennels, van Meisels Stee?
Why are my photo's not shown in the gallery?

Someone (admin) needs to explain this!
Unbelieveable that one person can dictate and decide this!!!

response
 

Someone (admin) needs to explain this!
Unbelieveable that one person can dictate and decide this!!![/quote]



No, it's not unbelievable ....this site all things are possible!
And what is ? or ! ?
Mix!!

Do not worry about it, I think it's all politics ....

This is one of the many ridiculous examples of the absurd overzealousness of the administrator. just because there is Crying Wolf in the ancestors? Don’t let me laugh. I happen to know this dog, which is for me simply beyond any doubt: is from an honorable kennel, has official FCI papers, has undergone all the tests and the DNA is stored. It's just a wonderful breed typical Czech with a devastatingly open character!

The witch hunt of the administrator (cum suis…) misses target with a further and further narrowing gene pool as a result. Of irresponsible almost childish amateurism with complete lack of knowledge about genetics.

Wolfdog is for me of less and less value. A private, already incomplete site where particular jealousy of some people (also happen to be breeders...) is glossed over by non-argumentation.

A pity!

Thank you Buidelwolf for you support. If the administrator has the gutz to respons on this topic it and explain what is going on, it would be a relief and we can defent our self.
But for now the database cann't be taken serious. It is amazing what is happening here......

(_!_)
 

I was wondering how it is possible for a dog to have this symbol (_!_) against its name when the parents do not. Also how is it possible for 1 of the litter to have it when litter mates do not? as an example, I was looking at........
Moňa z Krotkovského dvora CS (_!_), her parents are not (_!_)

Fallko Kollárov dvor (_!_) , his parents are not (_!_)

Looking at the parents of the above dogs offspring there are the only 1 in litter to have this mark against their name, how is this possible when all in litter have the same parents.

Thank you in advance for any helpful reply.

Just purely conjecture, but I think perhaps the "!" means that the dog or bitch may be listed on the pedigree officially as the parents of some puppies but there are some reasons to believe it may not be so (like some strange puppies in some litters, or the kennel is known for having bred mixes with fake pedigrees, or so)?

Now I am wondering why my dog Crying wolf Bárány is still no more approved for breeding?
I did sent wolfdog his DNA test of the B locus and his DNA fingerprint ... so tell me what is wrong with those two??????

name: Crying Wolf Bárány
stud book no.: NHSB 2698725
tatoo no.: ---
chip no.: 348098100136080

microsatellite-system:

Name: Crying Wolf Bárány
AHT 121: 98/.
AHT 137: 135/137
AHTH 171: 223/233
AHTH 260: 238/242
AHTK 211: 95/95
AHTK 253: 288/288
CXX 279: 118/126
FH 2054: 152/156
FH 2848: 240/240
INRA 21: 95/101
INU 005: 126/126
INU 030: 150/152
INU 055: 210/210
REN 162 C 04: 212/212
REN 169 D 01: 216/216
REN 169 O 18: 162/162
REN 247 M 23: 270/270
REN 54 P 11: 232/234

Genetic determination of B-lokus - PCR
B-Lokus:
Result: genotype B/B

Interpretation: The dog is a non-carrier of the genetic mutation
that is responsible for the brown coat color.
The dog can not pass this mutation onto its offspring.
The currently known mutations that are responsible for the
brown coat color were analyzed.
The result is only guaranteed for the submitted sample.
pedigree-id: NHSB 2698725
chip-id: 348098100136080

so now everybody can make make his/her own conclusion if he is a real CSW

and thank you for your help admin for the fast reply on my questions (which where like never!)

Is clear to all that echo is the son of Arys and Hitt.

It is clear for newbe too.

Crying Wolf
 

my dog has breeding rights in the netherlands and I did sent you all the results , and stil no answer about why he has no breeding rights on wolfdog. His DNA and B locus have been openly published also.. so tell me why....
or is the only reason you hate his breeder?

This will be checked.


It's not about hate. It is a fact that in the Crying Wolf kennel came to the crossings of Saarloos wolfdog male and Czechoslovakian Wolfdog females and at least litter "T" and "S" are mixes Saarloos x Wolfdog.
There are serious doubts as to the other dogs in the kennel.

At the moment, together with breeders I try to find the most painless solution, which, however, will prevented a spread of such mixes among the breed.

The saarloos was a red saarloos, and I already check his B locus (which results you already have) so he is not a direct descendent from a red saarloos.

I've heard such an argument, but it is incorrect. BB locus test makes sense only in first generation. According to the Mendelian inheritance rule already in the second-generation descendants of Saarloos may have BB although they are "still" Saarloos mixes.

I also said the same thing.. i can say he is not a direct descendent from the red saarloos (first line) but for a cross he has a lot of homozygote pairs at his dna profile (8 from the 16 places), i've seen more dna profiles from csw... are they all crosses???
By using that argument you cannot trust any bigger breeder or stud dog owner with more than one csw, who has a chipreader in his/her pocket when a female is mated by a male?

I would like to say that in the case of your dog the BB test makes sense, because he is too young to be 2nd generation cross from this kennel. And this test has prooven that he is not 1st generation cross.

Unfortunately these tests currently have no more use to us, because in the Crying Wolf kennel there are pups which are likely 3rd and 4th generation of the Saarloos mixes.

Of course not. But I also did not say that the list will not be expanded.

The characteristics of this breed makes possible scam, and particularly mixing with other breed, easily detectable. From what I know in the Czech Republic was detected even the case that the breeder used a different wolfdog than declared on the pedigree. If it was not a problem to detect using another dog of the same breed, you do not need to fear that more scams with mixing with other breeds go unnoticed. And the database is proof of this.

edited.......!

Crying Wolf
 

CAN I know please,because my f litter (lupifelix)has been marked with this symbol (!)

I think that wolfdog.org has not only degraded to a commercial tool ,but i' afraid i'm in wrong :-(

Mixes: Crying Wolf (Hungary)
 

Good afternoon
First of all apologize for my bad English
After communication of Slovak Czechoslovakian wolf dog club, what happens to the puppies born from parents of crying wolf breeder if his birth is after two years of the stay of saarlos at crying wolf breeder, for example Murad Crying Wolf and his descendants. I am the owner of Hacker de La Gretosa, who is the son of Murad Crying Wolf and Latka z Peronówki.
As I can dispel doubts about my dog ​​and clear the exclamation mark which in the name of my dog???
Thank you very much
Greetings from Spain

Echo Crying Wolf
 

Please remove the ? by the whole E-Crying Wolf litter. And all their offsprings: http://www.wolfdog.org/pl/dbase/d/23149

The litter E was registered in Hungary but it was bred by Milan Budaj (Slovakia). He covered Arys with his dog Hitt and sold her to Edith first later.

This is a wrong information, Arys in 2008 was in the kennel Crying Wolf of Edith. I was present when Edit made progesteron to the two females (Arys z Oravy and Ariminum Andromeda ,my female)from his vet. She went in Slovakia for coupled Arys with Hitt. Surely the litter is just like other litters of Edith. The problem is with the litter Y,it is essential to take the test dna.

Sarka the problem is another: only my litter between Żela z Peronowki and Evander Crying Wolf has the symbol (_?_). Other Evander's litters with Fantazie z Vlčí Chaloupky and Beáta Grey Střípek snu don't have this mark (_?_).
Fantazie has a second litter with Emir Crying Wolf (brother of Evander) and it hasn't -> (_?_). There is no reason to put the mark only to my litter. In Facebook is a photo album from mating to birth and growth of puppies. I do not understand the reason of mark (_?_).

Adrea, speak with Edith about Arys DNA - Milan I think give Hitt DNA without problem and you solve a disput about E litter for all time :)

This is ridiculous!!

Certo ridicolo come altre cucciolate non solo quella di Echo .

ma infatti io non mi riferivo solo a quella cucciolata, ma a tutto il resto...delle cucciolate che con il cecoslovacco non ci azzeccano proprio si sa e sono ben visibili, così come di quelle su cui non c'è nulla da ridire

Daiva, honestly, I did not understand why I should do a genetic test (DNA), moreover seems made to force me to take the test of parentage. Why only my litter has mark (_?_) ??? Evander has 2 others litters...
The admin knows that I breed wisely and in the best way (DM test, DW test, HD and ED x-rays, DNA mapping, my puppies are born, breeded and socialized in my bedroom...), Evander is the real father of my puppies, there are many photos to certify him!

only DNA test can say are this dog parent or not ( I not speak about Evander now, but about realy situation)

Ragazzi io ripeto che è solo una battaglia commerciale.

Io sono stato tra i primi a schierarmi contro i mix di qualsiasi tipo,e a proporre contromisure adeguate.

Ma è veramente ridicolo mettere in discussione una cucciolata tra hitt ed arys la cui progenie è visibilmente omogenea e incredibilmente simile agli ascendenti.

Io ho usato echo ben due volte,ed ho avuto delle femmine incredibilmente somiglianti ad arys ed un maschio che sembra il clone di hitt.

Tantissimi sanno che questi segni ormai sono solo pretestuosi e nemmeno più coerenti,io lo tengo sulle cucciolate di cuma (figlia di echo)ed altri proprietari di sorelle di cuma non hanno gli stessi segni.

Io sono disgustato che determinati allevatori abbiamo bisogno di screditare gli altri,oltre ogni razionalità,pur di mantenere un bacino d'utenza apprezzabile.

Murad Crying Wolf
 

It seems that this problem is happening with all Crying Wolf litters.

Please can someone explain to me why Murad's profile was changed from (_?_) to (?_MIX_?) ?

Also, it is clear that Murad is son of Amore Mio Srdcerváč and Arys z Oravy, so why was it tagged with (_?_) to begin with?

Can I know the reasons to doubt his parentage? I do not accept "it comes from Crying Wolf" as an excuse.

Thank you in advance.

11 days are passed and admin not change his mistake... I think that or you decide to put this symbol (_?_) on every litter of Evander (or Echo because the "problem" is the same) or you have to delete this (_?_) on Zela's litter.... I have think that this site is based on equity but this is a good example of a real not equity...

Equity?
Martina look at litters from cuma and her sisters.

And look at the echo brothers offsprings.

The litters without signs are made by friends or there are other reasons?

There is not an order only confusion.

Yes Peppe, the Admin has HER preferences :rock_3

For ex. X-trovertida Fuerta Atropa Bella Donna (Echo C.W. & K-lee Vornja z Peronowki) has this mark (_!_) in her litter.

While others puppies from Echo C.W. are lucky like Leah Silver dell'Irco Sortiere or Anyankas Amber Eyes of Ice -non Solo Lupo-, their litters hasn't the mark.

This is sure equity 8)

I opt the new Admin is a HE ;)

Who cares about -!- and -?-, if we see that it is more or less random?:roll:

CW
 

Can I know because only the litters of Cuma (my girl) have this sign(!)? and the other sisters, and some litters from echo does not have any signs? There are breeders nicest and other less ? we made too wolfish dogs? or is there another reason?

I'm trying to clean the mess with the !,? and other signs. Anyway all offspring of Echo will be marked because till now I did not received the parentage test (due to the fact that Echo comes from Crying Wolf - the kennel breeding Saarloos-Czech mixes).

And my dog why? "Hacker de la Gretosa" son of Murad Crying Wolf (Amore Mio Srdcerváč x Arys z Oravy).
When the document speaks of the litter Y Crying Wolf does not speak for any of matches Saarlos with litter M.
It is possible that if my dog being MIX evidence is provided that is charged, as is the duty of providing evidence accusing my logical thinking, otherwise why would the witch-hunts of the 16th century.
Also now that her grandmother is dead how easy it is to accuse, right?

All dogs from the kennel Crying wolf born since 2004 are marked as "MIXes". It is the result of a lack of authorization to conduct DNA testing of individual litters and dogs which tried to do not only do the owners of dogs from this kennel, but also the official clubs. Since the Hungarian Kennel Club does not control their breeders, and the owner of "Crying wolf" kennel (which crossed Saarloos and Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs - mixes are min litters S and R and their offsprings) refuses to cooperate (which shows the fear of detection of other crosses) I decided to introduce such drastic measures.

The way to remove the "MIX" is very easy - just show the dog's paternity leading to the dogs bred in Slovakia or Czech Republic. In this case the mother is a bitch from Slovakia, all you need to do is to show that the male listed in the pedigree of Murad is real father of this dog (and it is not one of the Crying Wolf mixes owners by the Crying Wolf kennel).

In this way, I already cleared of the charges following dogs and all offsprings: Yvain Crying Wolf and Gisotsu Crying Wolf.

I'm sorry about that, but we are dealing with the breeder-swindler. And, unfortunately, the puppies have to be regarded as the results of possible subsequent frauds made by this person.

your words are not credible when you keep checking Yvain with "(_?_)" after testing , headaches and dozens of emails to your checking follow him so.
You have the same credibility as my president of government.....
Explains and convinces me why I will spend my money to do some tests which wolfdog.org will clean his ass with them...
Explain, explain....
greetings from Spain

The pups from Yvain don't have a question mark , so I gues that Yvain has been accepted. Al other pups from dogs that are not correct due to wolfdog also keep the question mark . So this questionmark should be about the kennelname.

Yvain is marked only because I made the first part of the update of the database. And not all the changes have been applied. It will change in the next few days.

Dear Admin,

As for Murad Crying Wolf descendants the doubt is because of Saarlos, will you remove the (_?_) from my csv if I send locus-b test from Laboklin? As well as DNA profile by them.
As I am now going to ask for Dawrfism and Degenerative Myelopathy tests and DNA profile from Labolkin, I could use same blood samples for locus-b test and clear doubts about my csv.

Waiting for your soon reply,

Best Regards,

Elena.

for my dog that was enough to have a yes for aproved for breeding but the ? Stayd in his kennelname.

my dog has now a no more for a different reason i removed him from the stud dog list myself.